Author Topic: Who have to answer for USSR deeds?  (Read 641 times)

Vlad123

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« on: A year ago »
Some people on this forum claimed that Ukraine is responsible for USSR actions. For example Bratwurst Boy. I wish to know if he has the same types of claims to all the other USSR republics which include Uzbekistan, Armenia, Baltics states etc. Or if not, then WHY UKRAINE?

There exist a country - Russia, who officially proclaimed itself the USSR successor.

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One of this federation's constituent republics, the Russian Federation has declared itself to be "the continuator state of the USSR" on the grounds that it contained 51% of the population of the USSR and 77% of its territory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_states#Soviet_Union

This is a historic fact that largest part of modern Ukraine had been forcibly joined to USSR.

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The Ukrainian People's Republic or Ukrainian National Republic (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Республіка, Ukrayins'ka Narodna Respublika; abbreviated УНР, UNR), a predecessor of modern Ukraine, [...]proclaimed its independence on 25 January 1918.



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The Bolsheviks invaded Ukraine from Kursk in late December 1918 where the new Ukrainian Soviet government was reestablished earlier in November of the same year. On January 16, 1919 Ukraine officially declared a war on Russia while the Russian Soviet government continued to deny all claims of invasion. On January 22, 1919, the Directorate was officially united with the West Ukrainian People's Republic, although the latter entity de facto maintained its own army and government. In February 1919, the Bolsheviks captured Kiev.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic#Winter_1918
« Last Edit: A year ago by Vlad123 »



Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #1 on: A year ago »
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Some people on this forum claimed that Ukraine is responsible for USSR actions. For example Bratwurst Boy. I wish to know if he has the same types of claims to all the other USSR republics which include Uzbekistan, Armenia, Baltics states etc. Or if not, then WHY UKRAINE?

Why not Ukraine?

Do you think you are Marsians? Just landed on Earth last year?

There is no country without history!

Vlad123

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #2 on: A year ago »
Baltic countries currently often claim they weren't even part of USSR, but nothing than occupied territory. Do they think they are different from Ukraine?

Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #3 on: A year ago »
What's wrong to keep talking about Ukraine?

Why are you deflecting again? Why do you keep finger pointing at others? Do you want people to take Ukraine seriously or not? There is no serious country without history!

AntV

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #4 on: A year ago »
There is no serious country without history!

That's a downright profound statement, BB!   Although your English is VERY good, if you don't mind a native speaker making a suggestion to put a finer point on your euphemism, you may go with: There is no serious country without its own history.

Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #5 on: A year ago »
Bean counter!  :D

AntV

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #6 on: A year ago »
 :D :D

Vlad123

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #7 on: 4 weeks ago »
Quote
Some people on this forum claimed that Ukraine is responsible for USSR actions. For example Bratwurst Boy. I wish to know if he has the same types of claims to all the other USSR republics which include Uzbekistan, Armenia, Baltics states etc. Or if not, then WHY UKRAINE?

Why not Ukraine?

Do you think you are Marsians? Just landed on Earth last year?

There is no country without history!
Ukrainians never shared political ambitions of Moscow. Especially those regarding World politics and World or regional dominance. The was strong feeling of national self-identity in Ukraine. When it became possible Ukrainians ceased the opportunity and proclaimed independence.

Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #8 on: 4 weeks ago »
I don't think you can erase so many decades of companionship so easily and wash your hands off...

All nation states are artificial and consist of once independent regions, whose people feel more or less differently than the central government. Ukraine in the USSR is not different. Especially as the USSR has been build as a kind of a federation including many once independent states.
Germany has many of these regions which HAD been actually independent countries before the unification and which even today have a strong local patriotism...GB has Scotland and Wales, in Spain Catalonia is now fighting for it's independence but has been part of Spain for centuries...the same in France with Corsica, the Alsace region formerly belonged to Germany....
Europe is FULL of such cases!

So it doesn't matter that Ukrainians "felt" differently from Moscow, they were part of the USSR, that all what counts, in good and bad times, it's your COMMON heritage.

PS: I found this interesting link....notable Ukrainians in Russia...a sign how interwoven you were/are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia#Notable_Ukrainians_in_Russia

You can't just dispose of that and wash your hands of your common history!

Vlad123

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #9 on: 4 weeks ago »
I don't think you can erase so many decades of companionship so easily and wash your hands off...
And what exactly Ukraine suppose to shake hands off? Well, definitely not Holodomor during which between 2.8 and 7.5 mln. of Ukrainians died and which is widely remembered not only in Ukraine, but also in Canada and US. For example:
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On 2 December 2008, a ceremony was held in Washington, D.C., for the Holodomor Memorial.[148] On 13 November 2009, U.S. President Barack Obama released a statement on Ukrainian Holodomor Remembrance Day. In this he said that "remembering the victims of the man-made catastrophe of Holodomor provides us an opportunity to reflect upon the plight of all those who have suffered the consequences of extremism and tyranny around the world".[149][150] NSC Spokesman Mike Hammer released a similar statement on 20 November 2010.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#United_States

Something else?...
Reading your posts I wonder how political view on Ukraine differs between Northern America and Germany if your opinion is typical for a German.

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PS: I found this interesting link....notable Ukrainians in Russia...a sign how interwoven you were/are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia#Notable_Ukrainians_in_Russia

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Ukrainians in Russia make up the largest single Ukrainian diaspora of the Ukrainian people. In 2010 1.9 million Ukrainians lived in Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia#Notable_Ukrainians_in_Russia

Approximately the same amounts of Ukrainians live in Canada and US each.

« Last Edit: 4 weeks ago by Vlad123 »

Mr Grunwald

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #10 on: 4 weeks ago »
I don't think you can erase so many decades of companionship so easily and wash your hands off...

All nation states are artificial and consist of once independent regions, whose people feel more or less differently than the central government. Ukraine in the USSR is not different. Especially as the USSR has been build as a kind of a federation including many once independent states.
Germany has many of these regions which HAD been actually independent countries before the unification and which even today have a strong local patriotism...GB has Scotland and Wales, in Spain Catalonia is now fighting for it's independence but has been part of Spain for centuries...the same in France with Corsica, the Alsace region formerly belonged to Germany....
Europe is FULL of such cases!

So it doesn't matter that Ukrainians "felt" differently from Moscow, they were part of the USSR, that all what counts, in good and bad times, it's your COMMON heritage.

PS: I found this interesting link....notable Ukrainians in Russia...a sign how interwoven you were/are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainians_in_Russia#Notable_Ukrainians_in_Russia

You can't just dispose of that and wash your hands of your common history!

So it's Koreans history what Japan did in China during ww2? If we are talking about state history and if we accept the notion that Ukraine as a state existed at the beginning of the soviet union as one of it's republics... Then it's history is shared, but if we talk about nations history it might be quite different. I think it's more about perspectives and if you believe in the notion of nations.
Golden heart, barks when has to

Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #11 on: 4 weeks ago »
....again...I can only tell from my german perspective....before modern Germany unified it consisted of a gazillion (numbers changing) independent countries, some of them mighty empires.

If, say...Bavaria (former Kingdom) or Brandenburg (Prussia) would try for independence from Germany tomorrow it wouldn't absolve them of their shared history with the rest of Germany during the...say...Nazi time!

Vlad123

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #12 on: 4 weeks ago »
....again...I can only tell from my german perspective....before modern Germany unified it consisted of a gazillion (numbers changing) independent countries, some of them mighty empires.

If, say...Bavaria (former Kingdom) or Brandenburg (Prussia) would try for independence from Germany tomorrow it wouldn't absolve them of their shared history with the rest of Germany during the...say...Nazi time!
One thing is shared history and another thing is shared responsibility for a certain political ambitions
and actions based on such ambitions.

Bratwurst Boy

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Who have to answer for USSR deeds?
« Reply #13 on: 4 weeks ago »
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One thing is shared history and another thing is shared responsibility for a certain political ambitions
and actions based on such ambitions.

How to differentiate? If enough Ukrainians had important functions in the common state and the citizens mingled, intermarried, had the same career options, the same rights and duties as the Russians....
Do you really want to say: "My neighbour, the Russian, is responsible but me, the Ukrainian, is not?" Even as both of you, your parents and grandparents, lived the same lives side by side in the same country?

My opinion stands, after so many decades you just can't wash your hands of your common past for good and bad. Nobody will believe you!

 

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