Author Topic: 19th century Polish town names  (Read 462 times)

gwendraith

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #15 on: 5 weeks ago »
Baile, Baila - sounds definitely yiddish to me.

Interesting, thanks :)

Bratwurst Boy

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #16 on: 5 weeks ago »
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Thank you, you are a star :)

Yeah..of course!  ;D

But now I have to know what "Baile" means!!!  :'(

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So, do you think that Siedlce in the Masovian Voivodeship is the one given my findings from documents from when they were in London from about  1880 plus your findings about the shtetl?

It seems to fit!  :)
Especially in the light of it's historical importance. There are several possible Siedlce but usually when towns share a name they are given additional attributes ("by this river" or "at that mountain", "East" or "West" etc.) to make it clear which is meant. This Siedlce seemed to be the by far most famous and important though, no extra attribute needed. It could be it.
 
A good starting point for more infos about Shtetls:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtetl


 

gwendraith

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #17 on: 5 weeks ago »

Baile, Baila - sounds definitely yiddish to me.


But on the other hand, I don't think that Yiddish had been the language of official certificates of that time. Mannooo, what a wretched word!  ::)

Hehe, very confusing word.

gwendraith

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #18 on: 5 weeks ago »

It seems to fit!  :)
Especially in the light of it's importance. There are several possible Siedlce but usually when towns share a name they are given additional attributes (by this river or at that mountain, East or West etc) to make it clear which is meant. This Siedlce seemed to be the by far most famous and important, no extra attribute needed. It could be it.
 
A good starting point for more infos about Shtetls:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtetl

Good point about the additional attributes. Thanks for the link about shtetls.  I feel reasonably confident that we have the right Siedlce. Great forum, talking with you has helped me think through things better and put what evidence I have together.  I don't think there is much more to find out unless there are any birth/marriage documents in the town archives which match. I have his parent's names and his wife. Thank you once again :)


Bratwurst Boy

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #19 on: 5 weeks ago »
Good luck! :)

bzibzioh

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #20 on: 5 weeks ago »
But then, we are talking about a man here...hmm...

Nothing confusing here: Baila was the name of the PLACE, not the man's name. It fits. I think it's the name of what's called in Polish przysiółek (hamlet). What I know from experience of helping people looking for Polish ancestry -- back in 19th century, people who emigrated always were giving as a place of their birth a name of their hamlets. Even if that hamlet counted no more than 10 people. And then that hamlet name was followed by the name of bigger village nearby or a town. With borders changing like crazy back then, people identified themselves as citizens of certain area, not countries.

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But on the other hand, I don't think that Yiddish had been the language of official certificates of that time.

If Yiddish was the only language he spoke -- of course he would. That's exactly what he would say to the official in US registering him. His passport was probably in Russian.

Bratwurst Boy

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #21 on: 5 weeks ago »
I had a similiar idea at first, with "Baile" maybe meaning some kind of hospital or recognized official birth place inside Shedlets...but not finding any fitting translation let me rethink....interesting!

gwendraith

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #22 on: 5 weeks ago »
Nothing confusing here: Baila was the name of the PLACE, not the man's name. It fits. I think it's the name of what's called in Polish przysiółek (hamlet). What I know from experience of helping people looking for Polish ancestry -- back in 19th century, people who emigrated always were giving as a place of their birth a name of their hamlets. Even if that hamlet counted no more than 10 people. And then that hamlet name was followed by the name of bigger village nearby or a town. With borders changing like crazy back then, people identified themselves as citizens of certain area, not countries.


I don't think anyone thought Baile was his name. My original question was what baile meant in the context of Baile, Schedletz.  I thought perhaps a town or village but Googling it didn't help. I think Bratwurst Boy's idea about the shtetls is a good one but then it could mean a hamlet on the edge of town, in this case Siedlce. By the way it refers to a British citizenship not US so I don't know if there are differences in how it got documented. Grateful for all the input on this :)

Schinesghe

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #23 on: 2 weeks ago »
The name searched for is BALE, a small village on the river LIWIEC, in voivodship MAZOWIECKIE, in poviat SIEDLCE, in gmina MOKOBODY. It is located 15 kilometers north-west of the town of Siedlce.

BALE in Polish is the plural of BAL which means 'log' or 'beam' in English.
« Last Edit: 2 weeks ago by Schinesghe »

bzibzioh

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« Reply #24 on: 2 weeks ago »
poviat

powiat (pronounced povyat)

So I was right about the hamlet thing. Did you manage to locate it?

Schinesghe

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #25 on: 2 weeks ago »
So I was right about the hamlet thing. Did you manage to locate it?

I did (15 km north-west of Siedlce). Do you want me to provide geographical coordinates?

Bratwurst Boy

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19th century Polish town names
« Reply #26 on: 2 weeks ago »
Thanks, that was very interesting to learn!