Author Topic: Movie "Aftermath"  (Read 1219 times)

ATP NewsEditor

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Movie "Aftermath"
« on: 12 months ago »
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A haunting thriller on the imagined Jews of Poland's present

The power of 'Aftermath,' an uncomfortable film about a Polish village's dark secret, comes from its reliance on the viewer's imagination. In this realist nightmare, the Jews are only imagined.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/.premium-1.556026

Ironside

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Movie "Aftermath"
« Reply #1 on: 12 months ago »
If that is what I think it is then it is a nasty peace of anti-Polish propaganda.
IS

kowalskil

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Movie "Aftermath"
« Reply #2 on: 12 months ago »
If that is what I think it is then it is a nasty peace of anti-Polish propaganda.


The Polish film "Aftermath" is worth seeing and thinking about. It is  fictional, probably based on what really happened in Jedwable. Two Polish brothers (ages about 40) discover evidence that their own deceased parents participated in an atrocity (killing 26 families and appropriating their property). The younger brother thinks it would be better to keep quiet; he is afraid foreign media will use the evidence to darken Poland's reputation. The older brother feels morally bound to share the discovery with the entire world.

Several days before seeing the film I faced the same dilemma, after finding three racist documents on Polish fora. After some hesitation I translated them and posted them at my university website:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/racism/racism3.html

I hope that by translating and posting these documents I am not helping racists to spread the ideology of hatred.

Ludwik Kowalski, Ph.D.

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

nott

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« Reply #3 on: 12 months ago »
Well, it's fictional, so thinking about it is rather pointless. All it can say is what the authors wanted to say and, possibly, why.
truth is infinitely cognizable

nott

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« Reply #4 on: 12 months ago »
Several days before seeing the film I faced the same dilemma, after finding three racist documents on Polish fora. After some hesitation I translated them and posted them at my university website:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/racism/racism3.html

I hope that by translating and posting these documents I am not helping racists to spread the ideology of hatred.
Generally, linking to racist content is not allowed here. Why did you decide to link to this material from this forum?
truth is infinitely cognizable

Bratwurst Boy

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Movie "Aftermath"
« Reply #5 on: 12 months ago »
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The younger brother thinks it would be better to keep quiet; he is afraid foreign media will use the evidence to darken Poland's reputation. The older brother feels morally bound to share the discovery with the entire world.

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Well, it's fictional, so thinking about it is rather pointless.

Well...since this point comes up again and again during discussions with the same arguments as these brothers it seems the movie makers know their stuff and have pointed out the problem!

nott

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« Reply #6 on: 12 months ago »
Thing is, first Gross rejected testimonies which didn't suit him, then the Jewish Council stopped excavations when the findings seemed to confirm those testimonies. The film, as it appears, is made on the assumption that Poles were solely responsible, and rams this assumption into viewers. The discussion has shifted from what really happened to "why Poles are hiding the ugly truth." Kinda similar to what is happening here - started as "what the film is about", developed into "Poles are posting racist material on the Internet."
truth is infinitely cognizable

Ironside

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« Reply #7 on: 12 months ago »
Kind you are gulity and if you are denying that you are in denial.
 
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bzibzioh

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« Reply #8 on: 12 months ago »
Quote from: Bratwurst Boy
Well...since this point comes up again and again during discussions with the same arguments as these brothers it seems the movie makers know their stuff and have pointed out the problem!

The problem is that "the discussion" gets quickly highly political and point-scoring, instead of a sober national soul-searching. It would be helpful to first objectively find all the facts and only then point fingers, but that was not done so now we will have endless bickering getting us nowhere.

Bratwurst Boy

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« Reply #9 on: 12 months ago »
...and "finding facts first" is problematic in an environment of denial that these facts could actually exist!  ???

nott

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« Reply #10 on: 12 months ago »
There were excavations on the site. Stopped. The facts are there to dig out, it's not Poles who aren't happy to see them, it's Jews. The whole thing started with a rather vile attack soon proved to be studded with misinformation, and spread all over the world as "yet another proof of Polish savage antisemitism" long before anybody could really react. Asking "was it really as Gross says" is not a denial, it's a question still waiting for an answer.
truth is infinitely cognizable

bzibzioh

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« Reply #11 on: 12 months ago »
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...and "finding facts first" is problematic in an environment of denial that these facts could actually exist!  ???

Not so. Poles were accused, tried and found guilty before they knew what hit them. Jews can try guilt Poles into a blanked apology all they want; it's not going to happen. It's infuriating them immensely, they are used to throw one magic term, antisemitic, to get expected results fast, but it doesn't work on Poland. Poles are stubborn lot. It's not about denial but fairness: first I need to know what happened, and then I, only I and not because someone is bullying me, will decide whether I have something to apologize for or not.

Bratwurst Boy

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« Reply #12 on: 12 months ago »
...well...as long as you didn't kill a Jew you don't have something to apologize for.
That's not what the Jews want...most of them anyhow....it's more about the recognition that there something happened.

Imagine the massacres of Poles in Ukraine...how double insulting it feels for Poles if the victims would not only not recognized but the gov and the people would deny that there happened anything bad at all..it's like as if the victims get additionally to their gruesome fate also insulted and mocked. The wound can't heal! No Pole would demand from the now living people in this lands to declare themselves guilty....most anyhow...

nott

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« Reply #13 on: 12 months ago »
...well...as long as you didn't kill a Jew you don't have something to apologize for.
Indeed. That's the whole point.


That's not what the Jews want...most of them anyhow....it's more about the recognition that there something happened.
No. Everybody knows that something happened, this was known since the beginning, there was a memorial there. Jews do not want the world to learn that Jews were killed at Jedwabne of all places. Jews want all Poles to accept the responsibility just because Gross wrote a book. No discussion is allowed, research is blocked, questions are antisemitic. Gross hath spoken, and Poles are to kowtow and apologise.

Even if Gross's version was 110% true, there's nothing to apologise for on the national level. One village went amok, allegedly, and murdered Jews, the rest of the nation is not responsible. Demanding the whole nation to pay for it is tribal thinking - and this is a sympathetic interpretation.

Don't even bring Ukraine here. One atrocity, not even properly confirmed, does not compare at all to systematic large scale murder by a dedicated organisation following national ideas and now elevated to the hero status. You'd better start thinking why there's no world-wide Jewish outrage about UPA.

truth is infinitely cognizable

Bratwurst Boy

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« Reply #14 on: 12 months ago »
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Everybody knows that something happened,...

And that I doubt very much!  ???

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Jews want all Poles to accept the responsibility...

First they want acknowledgement! The responsibility to make sure something like that can't happen again should be a logical consequence. But for that the recognition and acknowledgement has to comes first. If people are in denial it also means such things could happen again, THAT's the point which keeps so many Jews so sensitive!

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..Jews want all Poles to accept the responsibility just because Gross wrote a book.

Did he lie? He isn't to blame just because he wrote about it...isn't he?

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Don't even bring Ukraine here.

Yes, it's perfect! Maybe that helps some of the Poles to understand how many Jews feel....

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You'd better start thinking why there's no world-wide Jewish outrage about UPA.

Pointing to others is not the best defense strategy!  ;)