Author Topic: "The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"  (Read 1813 times)

Bratwurst Boy

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An interesting article in the "Economist":

(But who is the guy in the photo?)

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/07/polish-ukrainian-relations

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...
It remains one of the darkest chapters in the two nations' histories, and one of the most misunderstood. Many Poles have an idealistic view of their Kresy, the eastern borderlands to which Volyn belonged, as a collection of quaint, provincial towns and villages where Poles, Jews and Ukrainians lived in harmony, explains Andrzej Szeptycki, an expert in bilateral relations from the Warsaw University. The axes and pitchforks of Ukrainian nationalists, they believe, brought an end to that idyll.
Reality was more complex....

Ironside

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #1 on: A year ago »
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(But who is the guy in the photo?)

The dude on the photograph is Marshal Piłsudski, the same one that won the war with the Soviets and Red Army, and the same one Hitler admired. 

The article just simplified stuff. It is not formally or factually incorrect but there is no real insight there.
IS

Bratwurst Boy

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #2 on: A year ago »
Thanks! Cool looking dude...

nott

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #3 on: A year ago »
Article just simplified stuff. It is Not formally or factually incorrect but there is no a real insight there.
A slight understatement on your part here. 'A pyramid of genocidal acts in 1930s, starting with Holocaust', WTF? A former Polish spy building a Ukrainian nation loyal to Poland? That Hrytsak, is he per chance... oh yes, right, a Ukrainian historian based in Lviv. Unable to accept that Uki terrorist activity began long before 1935, and not quite familiar with the definition of genocide. 'Pilsudski a 'Polish interwar strongman'... you need to be an ignorant, arrogant fkn Brit to use such phraseology. 'So-called Kresy group'....

'Time is limited'. Yeah, but not for us.
truth is infinitely cognizable

nott

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #4 on: A year ago »
Thanks! Cool looking dude...
Cool acting as well. Without him, there'd be no Poland. Of fkn course, plenty of other people contributed as well, but Pilsudski was kinda 1.5 Churchill, in comparison.
truth is infinitely cognizable

Mr Grunwald

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #5 on: A year ago »
Article just simplified stuff. It is Not formally or factually incorrect but there is no a real insight there.
A slight understatement on your part here. 'A pyramid of genocidal acts in 1930s, starting with Holocaust', WTF? A former Polish spy building a Ukrainian nation loyal to Poland? That Hrytsak, is he per chance... oh yes, right, a Ukrainian historian based in Lviv. Unable to accept that Uki terrorist activity began long before 1935, and not quite familiar with the definition of genocide. 'Pilsudski a 'Polish interwar strongman'... you need to be an ignorant, arrogant fkn Brit to use such phraseology. 'So-called Kresy group'....

'Time is limited'. Yeah, but not for us.

Well the article is popular-scientific literature which isn't exactly meant for research. More like giving a little information to somebody who have never heard of it. Maybe inspire to check it out more.

The main focus was Uki-Pol relations if you ask me.
Don't judge the book by it's cover

Torq

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #6 on: A year ago »
"Tragic massacre"? Tragic massacre is when a mad man enters a shopping mall with a chainsaw and kills 20 random people - that's "tragic massacre".

150 thousand people murdered because of their nationality is GENOCIDE.

Ironside

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #7 on: A year ago »
It doesn't matter anyway. Force and power matter.  If Poland would have been powerful, none half-breed scribble would do such article. That's a fact.
Who cares anyway?
Everyone in the west sees things the way they want to see them and the way it suits them.
Poles should act together and they should get their shyte together pronto.
IS

Bratwurst Boy

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #8 on: A year ago »
...
Poles should act together and they should get their shyte together pronto.

And then...what?

SpookieUkie

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #9 on: A year ago »
Unable to accept that Uki terrorist activity began long before 1935,
Poland together with the Commies took away our independence in the 1919-1921. So, what have you expected of the Ukies? Pat on a shoulder?! You are lucky we were and are pathologically too patient and forgiving by nature.
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'Time is limited'. Yeah, but not for us.
Then keep on whining. You are not ready to put it behind us. Accusing one side and ignoring one's own crimes is not going to solve the problem.
"Tragic massacre"? Tragic massacre is when a mad man enters a shopping mall with a chainsaw and kills 20 random people - that's "tragic massacre".
150 thousand people murdered because of their nationality is GENOCIDE.
Yes, it was a tragic massacre of around 60,000 Poles and 20,000 Ukrainians. Blowing up numbers just to make one's point is not the right approach. But of course, Polish side would always say that Ukies were murdering for fun, while Poles did it in retaliation or to protect their people.
Poles should act together and they should get their shyte together pronto.
I agree. Nothing is worse than spread one's shyte over the borders.
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nott

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #10 on: A year ago »
Unable to accept that Uki terrorist activity began long before 1935,
Poland together with the Commies took away our independence in the 1919-1921.
Read your history before posting. You had no independence. You failed one insurrection in Lwow, and then you wasted the chance that Pilsudski gave you in 1920. Exactly this kind of inflated nationalistic propaganda makes it impossible to talk. You stick to one fascist gang, reject the rest of Ukrainians, and you expect everybody else to cower to your demands.

Yes, it was a tragic massacre of around 60,000 Poles and 20,000 Ukrainians. Blowing up numbers just to make one's point is not the right approach. But of course, Polish side would always say that Ukies were murdering for fun, while Poles did it in retaliation or to protect their people.
You've already lost this battle of numbers several times, and you stubbornly keep repeating lies. And the fact that UPA planned and committed an organised genocide, and what the Polish reaction was, had been explained here as well, and several times, still you keep accusing Poles of your own crimes. This falls under the definition of trolling, so don't be surprised when the consequences follow. One more comment of this kind, and you're bloody gone and forgotten. I am fed up with this recurring scheme of printing lies, loosing the battle against facts, going quiet for a couple of months and coming back with the same lies again. This is well in the character of the UPA member, but fascist attitude is not welcomed on this forum.

 
Poles should act together and they should get their shyte together pronto.
I agree. Nothing is worse than spread one's shyte over the borders.
It's not Poles who come to Ukraine begging to work for peanuts, it's the other way around. It's not Poles who plant toy bombs in the UK, it's Ukrainians, in accordance with the old OUN tradition.. Perform a reality check before spouting insults, it helps a lot to avoid ridicule.
truth is infinitely cognizable

Ironside

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #11 on: A year ago »
...
Poles should act together and they should get their shyte together pronto.

And then...what?
What? Are you trembling?
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over the borders
Did you said border?  8)
IS

SpookieUkie

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #12 on: A year ago »
Read your history before posting. You had no independence.
We had independence. I guess it is you who needs some reading.

 
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You failed one insurrection in Lwow, and then you wasted the chance that Pilsudski gave you in 1920.
A chance? Give away half of the lands for support in a pathetic military march on the capital? You are funny.
 
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Exactly this kind of inflated nationalistic propaganda makes it impossible to talk. You stick to one fascist gang, reject the rest of Ukrainians, and you expect everybody else to cower to your demands.
I don't reject anyone and don't pose any demands. I express my opinions.
 
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You've already lost this battle of numbers several times
I didn't lose this battle. I accepted that I made a mistake or two in my calculations, but it ended up in you calling me names and spitting pages of crepe, which I found overwhelming and frankly not compelling to answer to. I bet you would have banned me long time ago. The fact that you (peak of insanity) didn't, I can only explain by support from reasonable members of this site. I thank all of them ahead of time, because with you I might not have a chance.
 
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One more comment of this kind, and you're bloody gone and forgotten.
??? (*changes diaper* ;) )
 
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It's not Poles who come to Ukraine begging to work for peanuts, it's the other way around.
I don't know what kind of answer to my posting it is and what our workers have to do with your sniffling about Volyn for a century already and whining all over the world ("spreading the .... over the borders"), but nobody begs you. Ukrainians get visas and do WORK in your country while Poles do exactly the same job elsewhere in Europe. They come to earn, not to steal, so what is your problem? Peanuts? Because of these peanuts, your people have cheap food and your country has better exports. But you are so anxious to bite me that you ridicule honest and hard-working people out there. No offense, but you are too dumb to hurt me, notti.

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Perform a reality check before spouting insults, it helps a lot to avoid ridicule.
What insults?
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SpookieUkie

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #13 on: A year ago »
Did you said border?  8)
No, I said "borders", because it goes in different directions, doesn't it?
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nott

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"The tragic massacre in Volyn remembered"
« Reply #14 on: A year ago »
Read your history before posting. You had no independence.
We had independence. I guess it is you who needs some reading.
Which independece you mean? The one in Lwow, when you lost to a bunch of students after a couple of weeks? The independence of Machno? The independence of White Generals, fighting to reclaim Ukraine for Russia?

 
 
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You failed one insurrection in Lwow, and then you wasted the chance that Pilsudski gave you in 1920.
A chance? Give away half of the lands for support in a pathetic military march on the capital? You are funny.
You don't know history, you don't know geography. Check where the Zbrucz River is. There are things called 'maps'.

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You've already lost this battle of numbers several times
I didn't lose this battle. I accepted that I made a mistake or two in my calculations, but it ended up in you calling me names and spitting pages of crepe, which I found overwhelming and frankly not compelling to answer to.

You just claimed 60,000 Polish victims, while the minimum accepted estimate is 100,000, and this was proven with linkable sources. I called you a liar, and I stick to this opinion, I have had enough reasons over the last years to hold it.

I bet you would have banned me long time ago.
I kept you as a living example of a Ukrainian nationalist.  The ride is over though.

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One more comment of this kind, and you're bloody gone and forgotten.

 ??? (*changes diaper* ;) )
No need to fret. There's a whole big Internet for you to roam.

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It's not Poles who come to Ukraine begging to work for peanuts, it's the other way around.
I don't know what kind of answer to my posting it is and what our workers have to do with your sniffling about Volyn for a century already and whining all over the world ("spreading the .... over the borders"), but nobody begs you. Ukrainians get visas and do WORK in your country while Poles do exactly the same job elsewhere in Europe. They come to earn, not to steal, so what is your problem? Peanuts? Because of these peanuts, your people have cheap food and your country has better exports. But you are so anxious to bite me that you ridicule honest and hard-working people out there. No offense, but you are too dumb to hurt me, notti.
Good answer, except that rectifying fascist lies is not whining.

 
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It's not Poles who plant toy bombs in the UK, it's Ukrainians.
I know, you are more rape specialists in Britain.
That's Muslims. 'Reality check', have I mentioned it already? You managed to insult Poles once again, cut another notch on your keyboard. And begone.

truth is infinitely cognizable